Are you telling me that I should ignore what my religion told me and give her condoms, educate her on proper ways to take the pills or how to insert diaphragm into her 12-year-old vagina rather than grab that opportunity to rationalize with her?

Hye again, Sarah,

After a psychoanalysis of your 2 comments, and several other comments from the readers of this blog (wuoh, all of a sudden I have readers..haha) I have to say that in a way, my entries on pre-marital sex and teenage marriage, which is based on a news article from Malaysia) have “insulted” either you or your belief. If that is the case, then please know in your heart that I am very sorry and it is completely unintentional. In my defense, Ivy Josiah who made the original outrageous comment has first insulted me and my religion, hence those articles were produced. But I have also come to understand that our different ages, marital status, culture and religion have put all of us at a disadvantage when discussing this issue.

Sarah, I have only been in Australia for 2 years which renders me unqualified to comment about the social situation in Australia. but for an England born, Malay Muslim doctor who was bought up in Kuala Lumpur since 28 years ago, I think I have the complete right to discuss on the decline of the morality that are currently hitting the country, MY COUNTRY, MY BELOVED COUNTRY.

Now, let’s go to the centre of this topic. I am clearly talking about “offering the girl to marry before allowing her to engage in any sexual activities” while you are actually thought that I was referring to “force marriage after the child is already pregnant” which contributed to the problem.

being married for 3 years , I can picture myself having a 12-year-old daughter who is yet to sit for her end of primary school exam. I picture her to be young and naive and curious just like me when I was at that age.  In case I haven’t been able to instil  the proper teachings of Islam where pre-marital sex is highly undesirable and not to forget the filthiest of all sins comparable to killing another human being, then I can definitely imagine that this child as having an older “cooler”  boyfriend and engaging in activities that might lead to sex, eg, holding hands, kissing, cuddling etc. As a worried Muslim mother, taking into account that I know very well that if I do not interfere she will soon, very soon engage herself in the actual “SEX” are you telling me that I should ignore what my religion told me and give her condoms, educate her on proper ways to take the pills or how to insert diaphragm into her 12-year-old vagina rather than grab that opportunity to rationalize with her that “honey, think about it seriously, you are only 12, you are so young and beautiful, you have a bright future ahead of you, do you still think that this 13-year old boy is “the one” you want to spend you whole life with?" If you want “it” so desperately, mommy and daddy will go see his parents and discuss about getting the two of you to be married, but think about it Honey, is this what you want for your life?”

If I chose to give her the condoms, I know that I have successfully prevent her body from being harmed (accidentally being pregnant or contracting a sexually transmitted disease), but deep down I know I have failed to actually educate my child. firstly, it is not normal for a 12-year-old to desire sex but even if she does, it is still not normal to allow her to have it just because she wants it. what kind of individual will she be in the future? If today I tell my 16-year-old son that “Darling, here is 20 dollars, go buy some condoms. Don’t just have sex with your girlfriend unprotected", I don’t want us to have to be responsible for your baby.” wouldn’t he thinks that I am ok with him being promiscuous? when the fact is NO! I am actually NOT OK with it!! It is filthy!! it is sinful!! it so contradicts my belief as a MUSLIM!!!! I can not bear to be a hypocrite just because that is what considered as the norm. And my children are Muslims too, it is my responsibility to teach them right from wrong, the Islamic ways.

If this is the kind of person I taught them to be, what kind of “Muslim”generation am I fostering? THE KIND THAT DOES NOT PRACTICE ISLAM, of course.

And do you think my sin of not taking proper care of my children and to not teach them the Islamic ways of things will go unpunished? It is easy, so easy indeed if no matter what we do on earth everyone will still go to heaven once they are dead, but sadly, that is not the case here. I don’t want to be burnt in hell together with my children, and their children and their grand children after them. not only that, I can not bear to even think that there will be illegitimate children in my blood line ever! If I don’t have the passion to prevent sex outside marriage (be it protected or not) then who will? If the government of Malacca does not make the initiative to prevent sex outside marriage then who will? because the issue now is unlawful sexual intercourse, not whether or not there is a baby involve. Because as we prevent unlawful sex, we will prevent  illegitimate babies and as a consequence of that, preventing abandon babies from being mauled by stray dogs. 

You on the other hand wanted to prevent accidental pregnancies and sexual transmitted diseases, therefore I have to say that the Australian government & education system had done you good. You have become their model of what a responsible Aussie is. If I am your reproductive biology lecturer, I will be so proud of you because clearly you understand everything taught at school. A+++ for that =^.^=. If I am born in a different religion, I will agree with you. because of the practicality of condoms, I will suggest it to these young teenagers.. because everyone knows that if they want to have sex, they will. they don’t think about consequences do they? they hardly even think twice… so  the best way  is prevention..

Now, if accidental pregnancies still happen to my daughter, a Muslim girl, will I want to force her to marry the boy who did that to her? NOT IN A ZILLION YEARS, THANK YOU. do you think that irresponsible boy can be a good husband to my daughter, No Thanks! I’d rather my daughter suffer the pregnancy alone and then give the baby away for adoption than let my daughter marry the boy. that stupid, stupid boy…. I will be completely disgusted at the utter thought of how the baby was brought to the world, to even care about it. No doubt that the baby is innocent and lovable..so once I made sure that he goes to a good family I will deal with this sinful daughter of mine. She will have to repent and learnt from this mistake to not repeat it again in the future and I will make sure that she becomes a good Muslim from then on.

Needless to say in the end we all want to prevent unwanted teenage pregnancies and prevent innocent newborn babies from being abandon on the streets of Malacca or Malaysia for that matter, only that I want so much more than that. I wanted ZERO SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE, I WANTED PURE UNDERSTANDING OF ISLAM,  AND I WANTED MUSLIMS TO ACTUALLY PRACTICE THE TEACHING OF ISLAM. but at least we still agree on one thing and I am glad that we do.

 

till then , Sarah, do come again to this humble blog. =^.^=

A religion does not change for the people, the people will have to change for the religion. because we believe that our lives do not end with the last beat of our heart nor with our last breath. there is still the matter of the good goes to heaven and the non-performers (sinners) go to hell... so as much as I'd love to agree when you say "the only difference contraception will have is to ensure their behaviour does not result in a child or disease", I couldn't because the one I have to agree with is Allah. not just me, but the entire Muslim population are with me.

Hye Sarah,

First and foremost, thanks for reading. i never thought anyone would read my blog to be honest =^.^=. I am so happy that you actually spent time to read this lengthy entry of mine.. now, let's get down to business.

I have to agree with you on the fact that allowing child marriage as not "the answer" to preventing childhood/teenage pregnancies. But I am firmly saying that in "certain circumstances" it still is.

Never in a million years will I be agreeing that a 22-year-old college drop out could be a good mother let alone a 14-year-old teenager, (hence the reason why I am still not thinking about getting pregnant) but at least by being in a marriage institution, the future of the babies that they carry is more guaranteed than if they were left without a father, without grand fathers or grand mothers that are physically able to provide not only financial but also emotional support..

you have to understand that Islam is a delicate religion. you don't choose to be a Muslim to only practice just the parts of the religion that you like and abandon the one that you don't. So when the religion clearly states that "NO SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE" then, that means there should be no sex outside marriage (pre-marital sex and adultery both included). and this ridiculous rule as many people might see it is there for a reason. It is to protect our blood lineage from "impurities" so to speak.

if anyone is allowed to have sex with just about anyone, and have babies as a consequence of that, there is a possibility that a brother might accidentally marry his own baby sister without even knowing it. we all know that not only that poses a serious spiritual threat but science has also proven that marriages that occur within the same genetic pool will enhance any potentially life threatening recessive traits. Although nobody has actually done a research on this ( or may be they have, only I am totally ignorant about them) but I have a hunch that probably the rising numbers of incurable diseases (e.g., cancers, metabolic disorders, mental disorders etc) that began to rise as the contraception industry gained popularity could be partially contributed by this. and when I said "this" i meant accidental sibling marriages.

because protecting the purity of the blood lineage is VERY important in Islam, any assisted reproductive techniques that involve fertilization of eggs from an anonymous sperm donor (obviously the woman at the receiving end is not married to the donor)is also STRICTLY PROHIBITED IN ISLAM. That is HOW SERIOUS WE ARE AT THIS MATTER!

so going back to the issue of allowing child marriage, i have to say that this is a very drastic action but a drastic action is perhaps what we need right now in Malaysia what with the numbers of abandon babies in trash bins, public toilets and bushes are currently already off the chart. (Sarah, condoms and the pills have been invented long before Malaysia achieved it's independence...if these people want to use them, they would have used them. and if they have been using them there won't be abandon babies all over the places.. so clearly they don't.)

Force marriage is probably the best answer at the moment if these youngsters are still insist on being promiscuous. the fact that they have to marry the guy will give them time to think and rationalize that "what good would it do to me & my future if I have to marry this loser? I'd better abstinent from sex until the right man comes along.till then, I'd better study and be a doctor or a dietitian instead" =^.^=

because i well and truly believe with every cells and molecules in my body that even the best and most effective of contraception, when given freely especially to 12-14 year old children,IT WILL FAIL. even if it works to prevent unwanted pregnancy it fails miserably to uphold the morality that Islam is based on.

A religion does not change for the people, the people will have to change for the religion. because we believe that our lives do not end with the last beat of our heart nor with our last breath. there is still the matter of the good goes to heaven and the non-performers (sinners) go to hell... so as much as I'd love to agree when you say "the only difference contraception will have is to ensure their behaviour does not result in a child or disease", I couldn't because the one I have to agree with is Allah. not just me, but the entire Muslim population are with me.
Owh, i should also add that even if I am so boldly against the practice of contraception amongst unmarried teenagers, I do think that It is one of the best thing ever invented for married women who want to plan their pregnancies and stop we woman from being a baby machine. kudos to whomever that first invented it.

in other religions that see contraception as the best way to prevent unwanted or unwed pregnancies, I respect your decisions. I am a very liberal person, but also happen to be a stricter Muslim than many.

I understand completely that your position as a proud women activist requires you to stand up to prevent child marriages. But lets be realistic, if a “reproductively matured” 14-year-old already knows how to have sex and actually wanted to, she is not a child anymore. If she seeks sexual partner or partners for that matter, face the fact that she will produce an offspring.

(Reuters) - A Malaysian state is to allow Muslim girls under the age of consent of 16 years to wed in a bid to stem unwed pregnancies, angering the country's women's activists and politicians.

The Islamic council in the southern Malaysian state of Malacca on Tuesday announced that it would to allow marriage for Muslims below the current minimum age of 16 years for females and 18 for males.

"This is an outrage. We're turning back the clock when there's ample evidence to show that we should not condone child marriages," said Ivy Josiah, executive director of Women's Aid Organization, a rights group.

Muslims make up about 60 percent of the 28 million population of the Southeast Asian country and fall under Islamic family and criminal laws individually drafted and run by each of the country's 13 states. Non-Muslims come under federal civil laws.

The chief minister of Malacca, Mohammad Ali Rustam, said permission would only be granted after consent by the teenager's families as well as the state Islamic courts.

"For the state government, this is the best step to deal with the problem of abandoned babies and unwed pregnancies," he was quoted as saying by the Utusan Malaysia newspaper.

Malacca earlier announced that the state would open a special school for Muslim girls who become pregnant out of wedlock, a move that also came under fire from rights groups.

taken from http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6733BS20100804 (here)

Finally someone is doing something to help solve the ever rising cases of unwanted teenage pregnancies and hopefully also put an end to the cases of abandon babies. Well, I have no doubt that it is going to be a tough job, given the amount of “exposure” teenagers are receiving nowadays from paid TVs, internet, video clips and many more…surely difficult to control their raging libido. Whatever it is, it’s a good start..In fact, an Awesome start!

As I read the article, I was pleased that out of so many states, Malacca made the first initiative to allow teenage marriage if circumstances required her so. But my happiness didn’t last long as I learned how angry the executive director of women’s aid organisation was with this news. She said “This is an outrage! We're turning back the clock when there's ample evidence to show that we should not condone child marriages.”

Ample evidence you said? haven’t you seen enough of abandon babies from the news? Some were mauled by stray dogs, and some were even buried alive. Now, I am ashamed to say that the bulk of those abandon babies do happen to be Malays and most probably of Muslim origin… But not all of them are Muslims either. When so many people point fingers to the decline of familial institution, delinquancy (if that is even a word) and so many more, aren’t you relieve to know that at least the someone is doing something to solve this problem? 

I understand completely that your position as a proud women activist requires you to stand up to prevent child marriages. But let's be realistic, if a  “reproductively matured” 14-year-old girl already knows how to have sex and actually wanted to, she is not a child anymore. if she seeks sexual partner or partners for that matter, face the fact that she will produce an offspring. Unwanted, unwed pregnancies like these are associated with extreme social stigmas. Parents will disowned her and as usual her partner wouldn’t want to be responsible for the baby, and in an act of desperation, she will abandon the baby in a nearby bushes or trash bin and leave it to die… wouldn’t it be better if she got married on the first place? There will be no problem with the baby being unwanted, there is no question about the father running away. and even if he runs, the girl family will still take care of her. A much, much better outcome for both the baby and the teenager.

Well, I also know that you’d immediately say marriage will ruin the girl’s life because she will be forced into being a wife, being a mom and being a personal slave to her husband. If sex is what she afters, let her have sex and give her condoms instead. Well, it is so happen that the religion that we are talking about right now is Islam. Sexual “freedom” is not an option. Giving out condoms will only promote sexual promiscuity which is against the teaching of Islam. For an Islamic country like Malaysia, we can not afford to do that. So the proposal to allow teenage marriage is very reasonable indeed.

The fact that you wanted to ban teenage marriage but in a way allow teenage pregnancy is absurd. In Western countries where condoms are available everywhere and people are allowed to have sex as they please, still there are “accidents”. Underage pregnancies and illegal abortions are indeed 2 of the most serious social problems in these countries to date. So clearly, giving away condoms, sexual education and free contraceptive pills are not the answers. It is best if we could teach these girls to actually does not desire sex before marriage. But that is not going to happen in a million years what with the “over sexualized” media that we have right now. So, what else can a State Islamic organisation do as a short term management of unwed pregnancies other than to allow teenage marriage… with strict regulations of the matter of course. 

Before an outrageous comment is made to the media, I think it is wise that you actually think about why such decision is made on the first place because just so you know, these people who made the decisions are not stupid. They are also specialists in their areas just like any of us. Don’t assume that just because it is about the religion Islam then in will be bias and oppressive towards women. I’m a Muslim and a woman, and I think this is a good start.